Cab and amp

[Bluefingers]

Hi everybody I need help!

I want to bye a poweramp and a cab to achieve my rack (Marshall JMP1 preamp + TC Electronic G Major) to get a rock tone
I really can't spend many money and my choice would be:

 - Rocktron Velocity 100 poweramp 2x 55W into 4 Ohms, 2x 40W into 8 Ohms, 2x 28W into 16 Ohms, 19"/1U
I know it's a solid state amp and will not sing as a tube amp
But 230€ on Thomann site, I can't go higher unfortunately

 - Harley Benton G212 Vintage guitar cabinet - 2x 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, 120watts/8ohm, 2x 60watts/16ohm, mono/stereo (switchable)
195€ on Thomann site

Now my questions, if anybody knows 'cause i'm really newbie with electronic   

1) Is the amp able to drive that cabinet without any damage (I think yes...)

2) The power cab is 120watts/8ohm, 2x 60watts/16ohm, mono/stereo (switchable)
Can somebody tell me the impedance of each load speaker?
Celestion site says V30 nominal impedance 8 ohm and 16 ohm
There are 2 types? One 8 ohm and the other 16 ohm? Or one LP can have these 2 impedances?

3) The cab is switchable mono/stereo
16 ohm in stereo and 8 ohm mono
That means the amp will drive 28w in stereo and 40w in mono?
The question may be stupid, 'cause I think I have the answer, but if someone can confirm Thanx

4) What is the quality of the stereo with LP near each others and mostly if I put the cab in vertical position?

Thanx for your help

[zagatron1]

Well, here goes:

1) Yes

2) It is true that V30 comes in 8 ohm OR 16 ohm.  It isn't advisable to mix speakers of different impedances in one cabinet. This is because power will not be shared evenly between the speakers and it can cause frequency dependent shifts in the power balance, and it wouldn't sound too good either. The only way you MIGHT get away with that is to have a separate jack for each speaker.

3) You are correct.

4) You got me there. I've never played in "stereo", so I can't comment on that. I imagine you would hear the separation in greater detail. Vertical placement would give you a bit less "audible" low end compared to horizontal. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Bluefingers]

Thanks Zagatron for your answers
I sum up
1) For mono: I'll connect these two devices with a unique cable, 1 output (left or right) from the amp to the input of the cab switched mono 8 ohm The amp will drive 40 w
Inside, the 2 LP should be wired in parallel and if the total impedance is 8 ohm means that each speaker impedance is 16 ohm
Right?

2) For stereo: Two cables separate from 2 outputs left and right of the amp into the 2 inputs cab left and right switched 16 ohm stereo The amp will drive 28w
The two LP being separate (each one on his channel),  the impedance is 16 ohm
Therefore, each LP impedance is 16 ohm
Right?

3) If one day I win the Loto, allowing me to add a second cab in order to get a "real" stereo,
The same cab 2x12 switched in 8 ohm mono for each One Left and the other Right
That would be good?
 
4) If this virtuel cab is an 1x12, the impedance of the LP should be 8 ohm for stereo without any damage?

5) Can this solid state amp go without damage with only one channel if it runs mono with a unique cab?

Pfff... My head is burning!
I'm better with my guitar and my ears than with my brain and these mean calculations :=)

Thanks for your attention
Friendly

[zagatron1]

I've never heard of that brand of speaker cabinet that you are using but an example of a 2x12 cabinet configuration (in series) would be:

2 X 4 Ohm Speaker = 8 Ohm Load
2 X 8 Ohm Speaker = 16 Ohm Load
2 X 16 Ohm Speaker = 32 Ohm Load

And in parallel

2 X 4 Ohm Speaker = 2 Ohm Load
2 X 8 Ohm Speaker = 4 Ohm Load
2 X 16 Ohm Speaker = 8 Ohm Load

But as far as the cabinet you are using (with the switch), I'm not sure. I don't think you can achieve true stereo within one cabinet (at least in your case), so you'd probably need another cabinet.

[Bluefingers]

Thanks a lot to take your time to help me in my reflection

If you want to see this cab, here is the adress:
http://www.thomann.de/fr/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm
Upside on the right, you may turn the picture and zoom. You'll see the back and his plate connection with its inputs, their relative impedances and the switch mono/stereo

What should be the interest of this switch if the cab is only mono?
Why 2 inputs and 2 impedances? If it was a link, it should be written...
Reading your post, I think it's a cab stereo. In this case, the 2 LP (16 ohm) are separate
One left and one right
Switched mono, they are wired in parallel and go together 
You say: 2 X 16 Ohm Speaker = 8 Ohm Load

I could try to mail Thomann for the answer, but I've already do that for another thing and they didn't know nothing more than de spec of the product you can see on the page

Anyway, this cab should interressed me
In this site, you can see 176€ for 2 V30 alone
Compared with this complete cab with these two LP 195€, it must be a good deal even with quality and finish chinese. Perhaps, some improvements inside will make it sound better and why not very good

I bought a Danelectro 12 strings, the 59 Dano 12, this year, made in China.
Amazing sounding,  and she's really easy to play. The finish is pretty good outside
But if you look inside... No, don't!
I wonder about the inside finish of the cab...
Bye



 

[zagatron1]

Nice looking cabinet. I think (and I mean think) the switch changes polarity, so that the impedences will match your configuration. That way you can use the cab the way you want. Bottom line is you cannot use both inputs (at the same time), without rewiring the whole cab. The only way you can go stereo with both speakers in one cabinet, is to rewire them separately, otherwise you need two cabs.

[Bluefingers]

I see
Thanx Zag for your explanations
Bye

[Bluefingers]

I've got the definitive answer to my questions about the Harley Benton G 212 V (Found on different forum posts. Wish I'm not wrong...)

This cab is really a mono or stereo cab
It's fit out with 2 lp Celestion Vintage 30 (16 ohm each)

1) The switch mono 8 ohm wires the lp in parallel
2 X 16 Ohm Speaker = 8 Ohm Load
One jack from the amp output (left OR right) plugged into the cab input 8 ohm switched mono
This way, the 2 lp work together
The Rocktron Velocity 100 will deliver 40w

2) The switch stereo 16 ohm wires lp seperated (each nominal lp impedance 16 ohm)
Two jacks from amp outputs (right AND left) plugged into the two cab inputs
This way, one lp will be right channel and the other left channel
The Rocktron Velocity 100 will deliver 28w

True stereo in a 2x12 cab is available on the paper
In the reality, the distance between the lp is so short, I wonder about the quality of the stereo playing 3m distant, and further more, the public audience without a second cab... and without playing with the head inside the cab (like a big head phone!)
May be the definition will be better as you said Zag

I"ll post a review when I'll get it, if someone is interested about this unexpensive cab (I don't know if it is distributed in USA)

If somebody finds something wrong, please, tell me
Sorry for my approximative english... Dictionary is my friend and so your enlightened opinions!
Zag, are you alright with that?

[DetroitBlues]

Unless you're playing on a really big outdoor stage, you shouldn't need anything higher than 30 watts.  Anything more than that, the volume will be low and the amp won't have its typicaly breakup to sound right.  Just my opinion.

[Bluefingers]

That's true DetroitBlues
For that reason, I was interessed by this amp who delivers 2x28w in 16 ohm
Enough for clubs and 1x40w mono 8 ohm (on this cab) for bigger stages or outdoor
Perhaps, you were talking about the LP, 60w max in 16ohm who should be under powered?

[DetroitBlues]

I recently picked up a Jet City 20W combo.  It can get really loud, but with its gain the notes are still clear.   Most of the smaller wattage amps can push a larger cabinet such as a 2x12 or 4x10 cabinet.  My Jet City is a 1x12 with an optional 1x12 matching extension cabinet (each speaker is cabable of 70W).  Honestly, I think people pay more for the cabinet name rather than what's inside the cabinet.  A friend of mine makes custom amps using premimum hard woods, that would cost a fourtune if you bought it from Marshall, Orange, Mesa, PRS, etc..   So the question really is do you want clean or do you want gain?  If you want clean, a higher wattage amp may be needed.  If you want gain, lower wattage will work.  Plus you have the whole debate of tube versus solid state...

[Bluefingers]

Thanks for your interest to my post, but, are we talking about the same thing?
My own reflection was how to complete my yet existing rack with a poweramp and a cab
Like every musician  without money I want a cheap good sound
This Harley Benton G212V cab fit with 2 Celestion V30, is quite the same price as these two V30 selled separately
Harley Benton is known for making cheap components (no good quality), but in this case, cab + 2 Celestion V30 for 200€
Some cheap improvements inside this cab and it's ok
Though, I'd prefer two 1x12 cab for easy transport
This one exist, but without V30
Harley Benton G112V With no name speaker (77€)
Easy choice

Concerning the poweramp Rocktron Velocity 100 rack (240€), I agree with you
Solid state or tube?
If you have money, everybody will say tubes for the tone (me too)
Money to buy and money to keep it up
That's impossible for me

You said you picked up a Jet City 20W combo all tube (475€ here in Europe)
After some researches, I think your Jet City amp 20w combo is the JCA 2112RC
Congratulations I wish you'll be happy with this one
Soldano is a quality sign even built in China (he's not the only one...)
Add if you want a cab Jet City 1x12 (193€)
Amp combo, mono canal and without fx loop...

My Marshall JMP1 is midi programmable and can be clear or dirty when I want (with or without pedals adds)

You say
"If you want clean, a higher wattage amp may be needed.  If you want gain, lower wattage will work"
I love these two ways
I want a versatile amp
I want it able to sound very clean on ballads, dirty in Blues and distorded on Rock (perhaps in the same song)
The preamp will command

How do you get that versatility with that combo?

Thanx for your interest DetroitBlues and have a great fun with your new amp
Would you post your impressions for the community knowledge

Let me know if I missed something
My dictionnary is warm...
I would like to put some smiley on my text, but i'm not able... How do you do?

[DetroitBlues]

It appeared you were open to suggestion beyond a rack mounted power amp.  I guess some pro's use them, but I think they run to tube amps first then have the power amps to feed monitors....

Anyway, yes, that is the model I have.  While its clean headroom is not what I'd like (volume isn't there compared to when its gain is turned up).  But like you, I'm shooting for low cost over tone, so I have a booster pedal I borrowed to see what that does to the clean volume boost.    I can get the clean to get loud, but I have to turn up the amp volume.  But when i need crunch, I have to back it down and raise the gain.  That's a little tough when a soundboard guy has it all mic'd up.  My favorite little amp would be Mesa Transatlantic head or the Egnator Rebel.  Both have the option of changing power tubes from 6L6 to EL84's and combining the two.  But they have a great clean tone.  Orange is supposed to be like that too.  Very cool, but both are expensive. 

for what you want, you may want an modeling amp (Line 6 or Fender) or a multieffects pedal running into something clean with loads of clean headroom.  I've heard from Robert on here the Line 6 M9 is great for that .  Different amps/effects that can be run directly into a amp or soundboard.  I personaly have not had good luck with those types of pedals because I'm picky about tone, and they take a long while to get just right.

[Bluefingers]

Sorry, but I have to read many times your message to understand it (it's easier for me to talk like a "spanish cow" than understand a real american spoken I do my best

You say
It appeared you were open to suggestion beyond a rack mounted power amp.  I guess some pro's use them, but I think they run to tube amps first then have the power amps to feed monitors....
Yes, it's true, because I own, yet, a midi preamp Marshall and I like it, even his quality sound may be discussed
A preamp without his amp is nothing for a live guitarist and without him, my rack is not complete
You know that
You say also, you have problems to set up your amp combo
Clean or dirty and your set up will be a compromise (like in Poland: Drink or drive We don't care, we have no cars Bad joke, I know...)
You need to add a booster pedal to dirt your clean sound
I do the same thing with my combo Fender Blues Deluxe
In my pedalboard, there are saturation, distortion, boost, chorus, tremolo, equalizer
Inside of the song, I must imitate Fred Astair with my foot to change sounds
And more, change my pedals setup between each song, reading my print plan on the floor, while people applause to get ready for the next one!
I do prefer midi programmable preamp
One click, you're ready, And you stay standing up to relish the applauses (when they are...)

Modeling amp?
I only know the Vox DA5 I own
Perfect for home
Good for very slow rehersal
I once used it at full during 2 hours Everybody was loud this day
I felt air blowed by the pots, but the sounds were great
Today, it's still perfect
Often, late in the night, I sleep on my guitar (drunk, smoke or simple fatigue)
I wouldn't do that with an amp tube
Great little amp!


 

[DetroitBlues]

Sorry if I am confusing.

I was tweaking the settings on my amp tonight.  I think I found a sweet spot where I get the gain I want and and clean up the tone just using my volume control.  The boost pedal I wanted was for clean boost.  Basically a volume boost, not gain.

As for your setup.  If you have the rocktron amp, using a single 8 ohm output into your new Harely Benton cabinet using the single mono 8 ohm input.  You should be fine with that. 

There is a simple rule to follow here- Keep It Simple.  Both pieces of gear you want come with instructions in case something doesn't seem right. 

As for the Harely Benton, unless you have stereo outputs from your amp, I'd suggest you forget you have a stereo option.  You're not using it for anything but a guitar anyway.