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General Category => Pub Talk => : robert April 02, 2014, 12:14:33 PM

: USA & Health Care & Guns
: robert April 02, 2014, 12:14:33 PM
This is probably a hot topic... but I'm interested in the answer.  ::)

Why is universal health care such a controversial topic in the USA, and what is the reason so many Americans don't want it?
I find it bizarre. I think everyone should have access to health care no matter what their financial status is. It seems inhumane to think otherwise.

Statistics From 2009:
"Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

"We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, said in an interview with Reuters."

Which Countries Have Universal Health Care?

As a contrast, look at this image. Most developed nations have universal health care, but the USA, which is often portrayed as the leading nation in the world, has for a long time not found it important enough for its citizens. I find it very hard to understand.

Is it changing now with Obamacare? I am not sure what's going on with that.

: Re: USA & Health Care
: creekster52 April 02, 2014, 01:55:14 PM (
: Re: USA & Health Care
: robert April 02, 2014, 02:31:11 PM
What are your thoughts on the situation, creekster, regardless of Obamacare or not?

By the way, that website you mention says " is privately owned and is not owned or operated by the US federal or state government". I wonder if it's biased one way or another. I generally don't trust sites that have a bunch of ads! Haha - but I have such a website myself! LOL!
: Re: USA & Health Care
: zagatron1 April 02, 2014, 08:09:10 PM
The USA is good at cloaking (among other things) the obvious. You'd have to have been here for some time to know and possibly understand exactly what the obvious is. I know I cannot provide an intelligent answer for you Robert. I do know one thing tho', there are a lot of variables to say the least.
: Re: USA & Health Care
: robert April 02, 2014, 11:43:57 PM
I think that map above looks strange to most non-US people... many, like me, don't get it.  ::) ???
: Re: USA & Health Care
: robert April 02, 2014, 11:53:43 PM
And then we have the guns of course... sorry for bringing out the obvious! :)

Have a look at this list -

Firearm-related death rate
Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population

Deaths in USA: 10.3 (2011)
Deaths in Canada: 2.38 (mixed years)

Now Honduras I would NOT want to live in: Homicides 64.8 (2010)

There are a lot of people with guns in USA:

Now this is interesting -

Guns per 100 residents (2007):
United States   89.0
Honduras: 6.2
Sweden: 31.6
Canada: 30.8
: Re: USA & Health Care & Guns
: zagatron1 April 03, 2014, 01:31:35 AM
Those are part of the "variables" I mentioned earlier. There are so many here, and steadily growing. Think about the movement of people to the United States since the first European settlements in about the 1600s. The British and other Europeans settled here, then Africans were brought as slaves. After that probably waves of immigration which rose and fell over time. There's still issues about that even today and this country is trying to accommodate. Heck, folks  migrated up there in Canada way back when right? There was a time just after the turn of the century when the US was referred to a "melting pot" and many old-stock Americans worried about negative effects even more arrivals had on the economy, politics and culture. Bottom line is with all this diversity, some toes are bound to get "stepped" on and some feathers are gonna get ruffled! I mean, think about it. It's really not that hard to figure out. I look at it as one big "formula"....... whatever action takes place, effects something else. Domino effect like action. Dig? Can't take care of everybody, all the time. It'd be nice, but I don't think it's possible. Not here anyway. JMHO.

AND........I haven't even mentioned the folks who were ALREADY here, Native Americans! SO, no wonder there's so many guns and not enough Health Care among the population.
: Re: USA & Health Care & Guns
: robert April 03, 2014, 10:11:18 AM
Well Zag, the movement of people, or settlement of the land, was quite similar for both USA and Canada. No slaves here however. Our native people (first nations, we call them here) had pretty much the same awful experience as those in the USA. One difference is that the French has always been a big part of Canada's history.
: Re: USA & Health Care & Guns
: zagatron1 April 03, 2014, 01:15:17 PM
Thing is...... no matter where, no matter the history, there's one common denominator, people! Where there are people, there are attitudes. Different people, different "attitudes". Different theories of how things should and shouldn't be. The things wars were made of. The things talks and solutions are made of. So, if folks can agree to disagree, we have a chance.
: Re: USA & Health Care & Guns
: creekster52 April 03, 2014, 08:03:34 PM
In response to your post Robert...I feel everyone should have access to healthcare, but disagree with mandating that citizens purchase health insurance. The U.S spends tons of money on crap programs that could be better used to provide healthcare to those who cannot afford it.

In my case for example...The lowest cost "Obamacare" plan (Bronze) would cost me over $200 per month. I have seen a doctor once in the past 20 years at a cost of $150 at a walk-in clinic. I do however carry additional medical coverage (accidental injury) on my auto policy.

As far as gun control goes, I do not currently own a firearm because I do not hunt anymore, but have owned firearms in the past. I have never owned a registered firearm, and never will. Registering firearms does absolutely nothing to prevent crime.

: Re: USA & Health Care & Guns
: Vladan April 04, 2014, 10:02:52 AM
For what it's worth, my opinion on firearms is they should be available, but ...

... there should be ban on lethal ammunition. Non lethal rubber bullets are quite enough for self defense. Further, knowing they can not be killed, criminals should face increased penalties for using lethal power in their crimes.

Special police task forces should be the only ones legally allowed to use lethal ammunition, because they're supposedly dealing with careless criminals.

I'm aware it need lot's of refining, but that is the basic idea.

Health care, I live where it's obligatory for employers to provide healthcare, by paying to a state fund. I think it should be left to employee to decide how he's to use own money. At the moment, pension, health and other funds and taxes take about 64% of earnings. I.e., for each 100 employee gets, employer has to pay 64 for various funds and taxes.