Blues Guitar Forum - Rock, Country, Funk, etc

Guitars Talk => Electric Guitars => : zagatron1 October 10, 2011, 11:52:07 PM

: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 October 10, 2011, 11:52:07 PM
Sometimes when I browse Craigslist it amazes me to see folk selling Epi Les Pauls that are Korean made, constantly downing the Chinese made ones. I have 3 Les Pauls, 2 Epiphone (made in China) and 1 Gibson (USA of course). I have played the Korean ones as well even though I never owned one. They are all fine to me. If I were to sell one or any brand guitar for that matter, do I think downing another brand of guitar or where it was made is gonna make it sell any faster? I think not! There are lots of well built, lower priced gear availible to us these days than there were years ago. I reckon these attitudes parallel those in society nowadays. Maybe I was just too young and dumb and just enjoying myself to notice. Back in the day, we just had fun. Many of us still do. Just an observation.
: Re: Les Pauls
: reb October 11, 2011, 12:29:06 PM
i remember in the 60s wanting a fender or gibson, and they were so far beyond my price range...i finally managed to trade for a musicmaster II.

now, i read about eddie van halen making his own guitar from parts, and i think, 'i wish i had been born a little later...'. i couda done that...a piece at a time, like johnny cash's cadillac.
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head October 11, 2011, 06:09:10 PM
i hope those guys never stop hating those korean guitars.  ;D
because when they sell 'em cheap, i'll be snatchin 'em up!   if you find the right guitar, it only takes a little tweakin to make it a great instrument.  really good pots and caps are cheap. you can source pickups used, and save $$.  tuners aren't that bad to buy new.  you see what mean?
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 October 11, 2011, 07:21:00 PM
i hope those guys never stop hating those korean guitars.  ;D
because when they sell 'em cheap, i'll be snatchin 'em up!   if you find the right guitar, it only takes a little tweakin to make it a great instrument.  really good pots and caps are cheap. you can source pickups used, and save $$.  tuners aren't that bad to buy new.  you see what mean?

I can dig it! Heck, the tuners on those are pretty decent as well. They're (We'll call 'em "those guys" for now I guess) hard on the Chinese guitars mostly. There's no need for that. Besides, nobody's twistin' their arm to by those guitars anyway. I'm just happy to be able to have some of that "affortable stuff" availible to me and those like me. Sure, there was a time when I could afford that high dollar stuff (I was a gigging professional back then) but those days are behind me.
: Re: Les Pauls
: hagarfreak33 October 11, 2011, 09:52:33 PM
I have owned tons of cheap guitars-a little love is all they need-i still have a few kicking around here i have this Grand Prix Warlock copy that is messed up but sounds good.
No matter what you buy someone will tell you its not good.... :) as long as your happy that's all that matters.

this is also the reason i stopped  going to the Harmony Central Forums years ago-no matter what you post someone said something negative.
: Re: Les Pauls
: hagarfreak33 October 11, 2011, 09:53:42 PM
also a lot of cheap Strat copies are worth buying-for little cash you can change the tuners-nut and pickups and make a decent guitar.
: Re: Les Pauls
: pictoratus October 11, 2011, 10:18:50 PM
i hope those guys never stop hating those korean guitars.  ;D
because when they sell 'em cheap, i'll be snatchin 'em up!   if you find the right guitar, it only takes a little tweakin to make it a great instrument.  really good pots and caps are cheap. you can source pickups used, and save $$.  tuners aren't that bad to buy new.  you see what mean?

Absolutely right!

What I don't quite get is the guys that seem to think their guitar is an investment. I've seen plenty of guitar players say 'Well I won't buy a Squire or Epi, or whatever not big name brand because you'll lose money when you sell it'.

Ok, I get that but if you're in it to make money, why wouldn't you invest in things that are proven money generating commodities like precious metals or stocks or something. Investing in guitars as a retirement plan seems a bit odd and is probably not anywhere near the best vehicle for growing a nest egg.

I buy guitars to play them and I often buy cheap guitars that I can put a little work, time and money into to make them play and sound well. My Squier SE that I've got approx. $100 (probably a bit less) into will stack up against a MIM Fender any day in quality and sound.

Just my opinion but I think some of the 'haters' only dog equipment cheaper than theirs to boost their ego or to try to assure themselves that they somehow did 'better' than the next guy.
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 October 11, 2011, 11:24:35 PM
Your heads and hearts are in the right place fellas!

Play on!
: Re: Les Pauls
: weelie October 12, 2011, 03:36:27 AM
american not the better investment in the short term and long term is tough to predict (need low supply and high demand or quality). In the short term:
Buy new 1000$ guitar, sell for 800.
Buy new 300$ guitar, sell for 240.
Which is better?  You lose more money in the bigger investment (has higher opportunity cost also). The loss is almost the price of used cheaper guitar.

If one sells guitar, one tries push the demand and perceived value up. By saying this better than new ones, chinese ones...
: Re: Les Paul's
: DetroitBlues October 12, 2011, 11:00:06 AM
Its a big deal because the Korean models had better quality build consistency then the Chinese models.  Don't get me wrong, I loved my Epi LP Standard that was made in China.  What's even more coveted is the Japanese models that were made to look exactly like Gibson's with the open book headstock and 17 degree pitch on the headstock.  I believe those were called the Orville's.  Japan still makes them, I believe its Tokai now.  From what I heard its a Gibson quality instrument at 1/2 the price.  But if we are going to be on this subject, why not take a look at Heritage Guitar company in Kalamazoo, MI?
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 October 12, 2011, 12:21:47 PM
I've never tried one from Heritage, but I'd like to try one. I've seen some of their models and heard lots of good things about those guitars.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 12, 2011, 02:14:43 PM
Heritage are custom shop made guitars at the price of the normal Gibson.  I met a couple of the owners last summer.  Those guys have been building guitars since 1950's.  Those golden age Gibson's passed through those guy's hands we've love to have.
: Re: Les Paul's
: weelie October 12, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
Its a big deal because the Korean models had better quality build consistency then the Chinese models.  Don't get me wrong, I loved my Epi LP Standard that was made in China.  What's even more coveted is the Japanese models that were made to look exactly like Gibson's with the open book headstock and 17 degree pitch on the headstock.  I believe those were called the Orville's.  Japan still makes them, I believe its Tokai now.  From what I heard its a Gibson quality instrument at 1/2 the price.  But if we are going to be on this subject, why not take a look at Heritage Guitar company in Kalamazoo, MI?

I think some of the worst guitars I've played have come from Korea (of course some 60s American guitars have been even worse, maybe). But that was in the 80s. They learned, in the 90s they were making good cheapos. I think $2000 Chinese instruments are great... but you don't see many of them, do you? :)

Heritages are swell. I've played some very very nice Japanese guitars.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 12, 2011, 03:56:52 PM
One of my favorite guitars I let go was a 1995 Korean Squier.  Looked, felt, and sounded great.  Ironically, I sold it because I was being stationed in South Korea and didn't think I could take my guitar with me....
: Re: Les Paul's
: diaper head October 12, 2011, 05:45:27 PM


I think some of the worst guitars I've played have come from Korea

that must have been a long time ago.  korean guitars are pretty awesome these days.  i have 2 of them.  one of them is so nice i swear i can't help smirking every time i play it.  the canadian fakai is a korean guitar.  dillion and indie are both korean.  technology spreads pretty fast.  today indonesian guitars are not so great.  but they're improving. soon, they'll be making some nice stuff too. china also.
i have a chinese amp, and it's as nice, or better than any of the comparable amps from the big 3. (marshall, fender and vox)
we're lucky to live in these times. the future looks pretty good, and the right now ai't too shabby either  8)
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 12, 2011, 07:14:45 PM
Proof in the pudding for Korean guitar is PRS.  Their SE models are made there.  Supposed to be one of the best overseas guitars on the market.
: Re: Les Pauls
: weelie October 13, 2011, 12:36:23 PM
some mandolins and acoustic archtops are made in china, costing in 4 figures. I think that's more of a proof. If they make no corners cut high$ acoustic instruments, then i think we can agree they got it!

Great violins are made in china. That's the real pudding! Electric guitars are not that tough to make, imo.

I have korean and chinese guitars. No problem. I'd rather have a locally made, but cannot justify the cost. Also i rather have something that was built to last, so no corners were cut. I don't like waste.

: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 October 13, 2011, 01:48:05 PM
I know these aren't Les Pauls, but this dude I know has a rack of Fender MIM Strats (eight to be exact) and has absolutely no problems with them. Dude is proud as "H" to the "E" to the double "L" of his guitars! Sure he upgraded 'em, but they were done to his tastes. That's what counts, but you guys already know that.
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head October 13, 2011, 06:16:55 PM
see, that's something i want to maybe do.  i want a strat.    but i may want to see about  a kit.  i'd like to have rear routing, and no pickguard, s-s-s, and either a fixed bridge or a wilkinson trem.
i want to see the wood, no paint. maple neck. oh, and no jack hole on the front of the guitar.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 13, 2011, 07:17:30 PM
Guitarfetish.com has kits for strats and telecasters for about $100
: Re: Les Pauls
: reb October 14, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
dh, if you wanted to spend a little more, Carvin has a kit for what they call 'The Bolt'. i built one...it has been the test bed for pickups. all the holes drilled, unfinished, can order options out the wazoo. i think the last i looked they were $400. they come with Carvin pups, i think they are Schaller lockers, a corian (or synthetic nut) and what i think is about the most excellent shredder neck on any guitar i've got. their website is an easy find:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/kits/

awww...looks like they have new kits! *i will not look-i will not look-i will NOT look* :)
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 14, 2011, 11:02:55 AM
And most are on SALE!!! But don't look...
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head October 14, 2011, 04:43:14 PM
man! that's really close to what i'm looking for. and considering the price, it's definitely a consideration.
i met a bass player not that long ago that had a carvin bass he made from a kit.  it was really nice.  he also had a 600watt carvin head and a 15" cab.  :o
: Re: Les Pauls
: hillbilly-joe October 14, 2011, 07:10:28 PM
I owned a 92 Les Paul, it was the year they came out with a stripped down just clear maple top with gold hardware. I think it must have been a "B" stock.  It didn't have it, whatever that means, so I sold it for ¥80000 which was cheap. I'd like to buy another les paul, but a semi-hollow one, they are just too heavy these days


: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 15, 2011, 08:41:17 AM
Every Gibson Les Paul is weight relieved.  The only one that isn't is the traditional model....
: Re: Les Pauls
: VikingBlues October 19, 2011, 02:13:18 PM
Proof in the pudding for Korean guitar is PRS.  Their SE models are made there.  Supposed to be one of the best overseas guitars on the market.
The Korean made PRS SE Soapbar I have is right up there for build quality with the Gibson SG Standard I had. No evedence of any of the constuction being done in a rush or to a budget and seems to be great attention to detail - even all the stuff tucked away in the body cavities was very neat, tidy and well finished.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues October 19, 2011, 02:36:35 PM
I'm temped to get a PRS Soapbar as a backup to my Heritage.  A Heritage 137 (Gibson Les Paul Special) is too expensive for me.  The PRS might be the ticket.
: Re: Les Pauls
: pman57 November 04, 2011, 01:49:25 PM
Hey guys and gals! Have any of you played an Agile guitar? I have several Agile Les Paul "copies," they're made in South Korea, and for my money ($400 - $450) they are the best value hands down! Of all my guitars, they are my favorites.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Epi Les Pauls, too (I have several of them also), but the Agiles, I feel, are just a better value: ebony fingerboards, great pups, Grover tuners, excellent finishes and workmanship, and a lower price say it all for me. I have never had a problem with them. Check 'em out!

And as far as the Gibson Les Pauls, well, they, I feel, aren't the value that they once were. No way I"m paying their extortionist prices for Les Pauls that aren't that much better than my Agiles or my Epi's; certainly not $1,000+ better. And like many of you, I do not buy guitars for investment, I buy 'em to play 'em!
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues November 04, 2011, 01:57:45 PM
Hey guys and gals! Have any of you played an Agile guitar? I have several Agile Les Paul "copies," they're made in South Korea, and for my money ($400 - $450) they are the best value hands down! Of all my guitars, they are my favorites.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Epi Les Pauls, too (I have several of them also), but the Agiles, I feel, are just a better value: ebony fingerboards, great pups, Grover tuners, excellent finishes and workmanship, and a lower price say it all for me. I have never had a problem with them. Check 'em out!

And as far as the Gibson Les Pauls, well, they, I feel, aren't the value that they once were. No way I"m paying their extortionist prices for Les Pauls that aren't that much better than my Agiles or my Epi's; certainly not $1,000+ better. And like many of you, I do not buy guitars for investment, I buy 'em to play 'em!

As I have not played an Agile, I have heard their quality is as good or better than Epiphone.  You can find them cheap too.
: Re: Les Pauls
: Memory Lane Jr November 04, 2011, 07:17:34 PM
The Luthier that sorted out my Hagstrom for me has been into repairs & building of guitars for a long time, he is an authorized Fender & Gibson repair shop & he seemed to think that it was an awesome guitar especially for the price & it was Chinese built, apart from the little dude at the factory wiring the pickup switch backwards!!!!!!!!!!  8)
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 November 04, 2011, 09:12:49 PM
Agile does have some well built, good looking axes.
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 November 12, 2011, 03:00:50 AM
I just came back from I guess what I'd call a Veteran's Day jam, and man are my fingers sore! Anyways, there were guys playin' some nice axes (mostly Gibby LPs) and I was just going with the flow for the most part with my Epi LP Studio Deluxe and my trusty Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. Also, I got an earfull of how great the Epi Elitist LPs from Japan are! Well, I couldn't help thinkin' about those days when we "just had fun" when we played and where not judged by the gear we came with. Yeah, I have a Gibby LP too (2009 Raw Power),  but I like my Epi with those P-90s a bit more. Kinda reminds me why I play for my own enjoyment now. Funny thing about it all is these guys haven't been where I've been. I mean, it was like a flex fest!
: Re: Les Pauls
: reb November 12, 2011, 10:33:37 AM
that 'hey, man! lookit my gear!' thing turns me off, too.

i have an epi les paul 'elitist'. i think gibson finally got that they had made a mistake marketing all the elitist instruments, and they quit. i also had a 3 dot 65 elitist that i sold...and i wish i had not, as it was a much more reliable instrument than this les paul is (tuning from time to time).

i'm a cheap guy...i'm not going to pay thousands more for an instrument with a 'name' on it, when the 'lesser name' instrument plays as nice. since i am not on stage, and i'm not sponsored, what would be the point? i like cheap guitars, anyway.

one of these days, if squier don't quit with their pretty high quality, fender is going to stop selling squiers, too. some 'metrics report' is going to come in, and that will be it.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues November 12, 2011, 12:40:02 PM
I like having the best of both worlds... Name brand guitars with repaired headstocks are the way to go.  The value is so dimished from the repair, you get get them at the price of a new import guitar.
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head November 12, 2011, 05:05:30 PM
I like having the best of both worlds... Name brand guitars with repaired headstocks are the way to go.  The value is so dimished from the repair, you get get them at the price of a new import guitar.

that's true, and if the repair was done properly, there's no ill effect
: Re: Les Pauls
: IM4Tone November 12, 2011, 05:53:15 PM
i'm a cheap guy...i'm not going to pay thousands more for an instrument with a 'name' on it, when the 'lesser name' instrument plays as nice.
:o That sounds like me! ;)
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues November 12, 2011, 11:01:30 PM
I like having the best of both worlds... Name brand guitars with repaired headstocks are the way to go.  The value is so dimished from the repair, you get get them at the price of a new import guitar.

that's true, and if the repair was done properly, there's no ill effect

Now that's the tricky part.  You really have to know what's a professional repair and what's superglued by some teenager in his mom's kitchen.... 
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head November 14, 2011, 06:50:26 PM
if it's done proper you would barely be able to even see it. if it's the least bit noticeable, you don't want it.  i've seen some pretty ugly, violent breaks repaired to be near invisible.
: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues November 14, 2011, 09:59:26 PM
If it wasn't for a rear vaneer on my Heritage, you wouldn't know it was broken.
: Re: Les Pauls
: diaper head November 15, 2011, 06:06:59 PM
excellent example.  :)
: Re: Les Pauls
: zagatron1 November 23, 2011, 12:26:57 AM
Here's a couple of interesting "special" Les Pauls, check out the testimonials-
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/2716763351.html                            and if you have more money to spend, there's always one of these-
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/2716759871.html

: Re: Les Pauls
: DetroitBlues November 24, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
People are so crazy to think that if you can post your guitar on the internet, the rest of us cannot figure out what the REAL value of a guitar is.  Epi Special 2 that retails for $149 or a Epi LP100 that retails for $250.... I don't know know what's worse, those with overpriced gear or the fool that buys it.
: Re: Les Paul's
: DetroitBlues December 08, 2011, 01:48:53 PM
Its a big deal because the Korean models had better quality build consistency then the Chinese models.  Don't get me wrong, I loved my Epi LP Standard that was made in China.  What's even more coveted is the Japanese models that were made to look exactly like Gibson's with the open book headstock and 17 degree pitch on the headstock.  I believe those were called the Orville's.  Japan still makes them, I believe its Tokai now.  From what I heard its a Gibson quality instrument at 1/2 the price.  But if we are going to be on this subject, why not take a look at Heritage Guitar company in Kalamazoo, MI?

I think some of the worst guitars I've played have come from Korea (of course some 60s American guitars have been even worse, maybe). But that was in the 80s. They learned, in the 90s they were making good cheapos. I think $2000 Chinese instruments are great... but you don't see many of them, do you? :)

Heritages are swell. I've played some very very nice Japanese guitars.

You'll pay $2,000 for the Gretsch 6000 series guitars that are made in Japan..... Only Gretsch custom shop is made in the USA.... Not worth it to me...