Want to learn jazz?

Have you seen my latest Blues Course - Slow 60 Blues?

Author Topic: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?  (Read 8163 times)

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« on: August 13, 2014, 06:19:39 PM »
I know the well informed folks here have probably heard about these, but I had to put this out for some "input" from you guys. First up.....I found out about this one from an ad in my local CL. This gem of an amp is the from the fella that brought you QSC products (power amps,etc.). The amp is the "Aviator" from Quilter. This (100 advertised watts per channel) amp comes in four configurations. The head only, 8" closed back, twin 10" and 1 x 12" open back. These are made in the USA and come with protective cover.  The one I saw and listened to was the 1 x 12. Personally, I haven't heard enough to say they sound tube-ish, but what I did hear was quite good. Oh.......these babies ain't cheap and y'know the purists are gonna say they are overpriced. Yeah, the 1 x 12? $949!! Oh well. For more information, you can check 'em out here - http://www.quilterlabs.com/  There also a host of other stuff like extension cabs and assessories.


Next up from Roland, you probably heard about the reemergence of the Blues Cube. The two models the have on the scene now are the "Stage" 60-watt combo and the "Artist" 80-watt combo. They're supposed to have this comprehensive Tube Logic design that delivers  interactive tonal behaviors of famous fine-tuned vintage tube amps, including preamp and output tube distortion characteristics and power supply compression. Both feature a four-way Power Control (0.5 W, 15 W, 45 W, Max) that allows for cranked-amp tones at any volume. You can read more about these amps below........

http://www.roland.com/products/en/Blues_Cube_Stage/   $699

http://www.roland.com/products/en/Blues_Cube_Artist/    $899

For what they are, they're quite good. Now the price......well that's another story.

In addition to "tube amp" characteristics, it would seem these new entries have "tube amp" price tags! Wonder how the revamped TransTube-driven Peavey Bandit 112 would stack up to the above amps? Let them solid states bump heads a bit, then "Play on"!!!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 10:16:25 PM by zagatron1 »

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 11:02:36 AM »
Let me share something right quick.

https://app.box.com/s/6soy2scb3toet35wgtm9

That's how it's been 'round here for quite some time. Anyways, have a great week folks!

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2014, 05:37:38 PM »
An addendum to my original post below, we have Blackstar's entry into the ring!

http://www.blackstaramps.com/products/idseries/

Vladan

  • http://vladanmovies.blogspot.com
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 671
  • High on own Supply
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 04:28:42 AM »
Tweeds look great.

DetroitBlues

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1804
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 09:18:37 AM »
I recently picked up a Peavey Transtube Bandit 112 (red stripe USA model). First any only solid state amp that has excellent clean and overdrive tones.  Plus it cuts through the mix just find with a loud band.... I really like it.

As for the two amps you've mentioned, I haven't seen nor tried either one.

robert

  • Guitar Guy
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2014, 11:50:14 AM »
For those prices, why by the Roland when you can buy a real tube amp for those prices?

reb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 976
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2014, 05:25:06 PM »
can anyone (or even just one or two) tell in a band/live setting that an amp is not tube? can most people tell in a recording?

maybe we guitar players like to think the tubes make that much difference? or maybe the fact that digital amps like the cube series are so much more rugged...someone wants to sell replacement tubes? too much smoke and mirrors.  i sold a couple tube amps in the last couple years coz they didn't sound to me like they were that much better sounding than the cube 30.

for that matter, brad paisley is so 'famous' among country pickers for having 'tone'.  i heard him on one of the morning shows doing a concert in nyc; listened on the stereo out (paradigm speakers, sony amplifier, clean digital signal)...dint sound like some tornado picker to me.  they had a 'cover' (not a bandshell), it was in a park-acoustics flat as a pancake sounded like.  mozart in the vienna philharmonic hall, it wasn't. who gives a poop if he has $3,000 of dr. z amps and a booteek telecaster clone in conditions like that? or most bars, or county fairs, or lotsa places? if i can't hear it, why do i want to pay for it?

i always want to know who's grinding an axe; famously 'follow the money'. i'm not 100% convinced every audience can tell a difference. are we convincing ourselves only? if y'all are convinced, great. i'm playing cheap stuff,some is digital, some is tube and it sounds good enough for me.  expensive digital or tube? nope.  maybe if i saw a 'copy' of some famous amp, i might bite...but...maybe not, too.

Vladan

  • http://vladanmovies.blogspot.com
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 671
  • High on own Supply
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2014, 07:13:22 PM »
I strongly believe the "tube sound" praise came as a spin on reality fact, that is, early transistor amps sounded really bad, for about one generation.
So, out of "in the early days, when transistors sounded bad, tubes sounded better", we came to "sound of tubes is distinctivly good". IMO, of course.

Another fact of life, when only tubes were there, amps were made of quality, made to last, With transistors the era begun of mass production, for profit, disposable appliances. So, it's possible, proportionaly to a number of produced units, tube things sound(ed) better, only not due tubes, but because they were better built over all.

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2014, 04:16:04 PM »
It'd be a lot simpler and less stressful (unless you thrive ON stress) if folks just get what "works for them" and not worry about what's the best thing smokin' out here. The tube vs solid state thing is just conversation and NOT a debate (to me at least). Come to think of it, I encountered a solid state amp before I even knew how to play guitar. A neighbor of ours back in the 60s had a Standel amplifier. Then I noticed Wes Montgomery was playin' one of those as well. This was th' 60s mind you. My first amp was a Teisco somethin' or other and thinkin' about how it sounded (good to me back then) well, it sounded awful!!! Lookin' back, solid state has been in and out for a while, but has taken strides to improve it's image (and sound). I'd say they did quite good. I've got all three examples, solid state, hybrid and tube. Love 'em all. Some folks need to ditch their predjudices and just play guitar!  Let "the other guy" buy what HE wants or can afford. Tube AND Solid State amps are available for whoever wants 'em. Lots of varieties an' all. Get what you want and/or can afford.......then play on! ;)

robert

  • Guitar Guy
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2014, 08:41:48 PM »
For me, a good tube amp always trumps a solid state. This is mostly about "THE FEEL", when playing the amp. The listener can probably not hear much difference, but it's not for the listener I have the amp - it's for me!  :)

A good tube amp responds wonderfully, and it feels better for me to play it. The end result is I am more inspired, and I will likely play better. At least I'll enjoy it more.

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 12:00:38 AM »
For me, a good tube amp always trumps a solid state. This is mostly about "THE FEEL", when playing the amp. The listener can probably not hear much difference, but it's not for the listener I have the amp - it's for me!  :)

A good tube amp responds wonderfully, and it feels better for me to play it. The end result is I am more inspired, and I will likely play better. At least I'll enjoy it more.

And that's the way it's supposed to be. My only solid state amp is my Yamaha THR10C which also my recording interface. Great little practice tabletop amp! Then there's my hybrid......a Fender Vibro-Champ XD. Good 6V6 action for living/recreation room jams. Lastly, my main guys (which are tube amps) my Mesa Express 5:25 (EL84) and Fuchs Blackjack-21 (6V6). Pure bliss! ;) Believe me when I say; "I understand THE FEEL". I'm happy with my crew.

Vladan

  • http://vladanmovies.blogspot.com
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 671
  • High on own Supply
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 03:58:20 AM »
Of course, what makes one feel good is extremely important in performing arts.
Tools of the trade are chosen so to deliver results fast and easy. There's no reason to tweak ant sweat over something, if you can have it at instant.

I was adding on reb's notion about difference in sound.

Sound of solid state vs. sound of tubes, it used to be hot topic in 20th century. What I gathered back then, essentially it's about mentioned tools of the trade:
   
- If amps (not necessarily guitar) work at optimal levels, with enough headroom, there won't be much, if any difference in sound.
- Once in clipping range, and more into it, the difference becomes more apparent.
- Tubes (amps, guitar in particular) have certain type of sound over a range, while solid states are more about specific settings.
Designers play with this and make amps to respond differently at seemingly same settings.
Some (tube) amps are made in a way there is no option to have it clean. You think it is, but it is not.
Then some say, this one amp has better clean than the other. In fact, it just has (different) distortion at same knob positions.
If they are both clean, 1-10%THD, no ringing, no phase shifting, ..., there is no audible difference.
If there is possibility to have it truly clean, you should be able to set each amp to sound like any other, only the knobs will not be in same position on the two. While in optimal range, i.e. super clean, one should be able to match solid state and tube.
Also, some types of distortion you can not have both ways.

zagatron1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 09:01:31 AM »
Excellent points for folks who are open and reasonable enough to understand. Unfortunately, there will be some to continue to be "narrow minded" shall we say and reject good reasoning. The hard liners will maintain their "this is better than that" mentality no matter how much you state the obvious: "it's a matter of taste" or "what works for you" or "whatever sounds good to your ears" facts! Sad, but true.

DetroitBlues

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1804
    • View Profile
Re: Input Time! Tube Vibe from Solid State?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 09:16:40 AM »
Well in my opinion tubes amps do sound better at louder volumes.  Solid state or modeling amps do sound good at low to moderate volumes.  However, I do not trust modeling amps.  They are prone to failure.  Peavey, Fender, just about any of them.  However, analog circuit solid state amps are build like tanks, but again, they don't so I d great at higher volume.  There is a difference between analog solid state and modeling amps.  I even had a Tech 21 power engine, but it found it sounds sterile with a band.   

When it comes to recording, people have preferred my recordings through my iPad over my amps.  Recorded tones sound rather good using modeling amps.  So there are some good and bad points.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 09:22:21 AM by DetroitBlues »