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Author Topic: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.  (Read 26718 times)

reb

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 07:14:31 AM »
i don't know how many of you recall my tuning issues...i hear 'off sounds' too well, despite losing my 3 khz and up levels.

after much, much investigation, my tuning issues break down to several things:

1. a 'standard' guitar neck is NEVER in tune at all positions. some are better than others due to very small issues.
2. some tube amps have wolf tones; some have them with some speakers and some cabs; some 'just have them'.
3. a pedal or an effect tends to cover some of the tune issues.
4. a crappy cabinet (cheap or loose board or poor design) makes lots of other things sound like they are a problem.

what i have been doing lately when i have the time is playing through an electro harmonix 44 magnum into different cabs. guitars that i might have taken to the garage sale are no longer 'in that pile'.

what is really discouraging to me is my one expensive tube amp only seems to like one cabinet (home built out of 3/4" ply) with one guitar. that's all the isolation i have been able to do with it. what ices this cake is...the digital 44 magnum sounds pretty good with nearly any guitar i send into it, and almost all of the cabinets i built. the dang thing is way loud....louder than i will ever need, and it likes my tube screamer reissue really well, also. for about $240 it may become my 'go to' set up with any of the electric guitars i have.

so, it wasn't my guitars or the tuning machines, it is the interplay between tube amp and speaker and guitar. the 'out of tune' sounds i heard were ruining my fun...i can't stand to listen to someone play out of tune. if it's me that i hear doing it, i won't do it once i hear it. i quit in frustration and sit and think.

i am no longer a tube snob. i may be becoming a digital amp follower.

Memory Lane Jr

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 06:57:48 AM »
i don't know how many of you recall my tuning issues...i hear 'off sounds' too well, despite losing my 3 khz and up levels.

after much, much investigation, my tuning issues break down to several things:

1. a 'standard' guitar neck is NEVER in tune at all positions. some are better than others due to very small issues.
2. some tube amps have wolf tones; some have them with some speakers and some cabs; some 'just have them'.
3. a pedal or an effect tends to cover some of the tune issues.
4. a crappy cabinet (cheap or loose board or poor design) makes lots of other things sound like they are a problem.

what i have been doing lately when i have the time is playing through an electro harmonix 44 magnum into different cabs. guitars that i might have taken to the garage sale are no longer 'in that pile'.

what is really discouraging to me is my one expensive tube amp only seems to like one cabinet (home built out of 3/4" ply) with one guitar. that's all the isolation i have been able to do with it. what ices this cake is...the digital 44 magnum sounds pretty good with nearly any guitar i send into it, and almost all of the cabinets i built. the dang thing is way loud....louder than i will ever need, and it likes my tube screamer reissue really well, also. for about $240 it may become my 'go to' set up with any of the electric guitars i have.

so, it wasn't my guitars or the tuning machines, it is the interplay between tube amp and speaker and guitar. the 'out of tune' sounds i heard were ruining my fun...i can't stand to listen to someone play out of tune. if it's me that i hear doing it, i won't do it once i hear it. i quit in frustration and sit and think.

i am no longer a tube snob. i may be becoming a digital amp follower.

It's funny you should say that reb because I have been playing with my Vox modeling amp a fair bit lately & really enjoying it, mind you I don't use the inbuilt FX apart from the amp models US Blues or US High Gain,I'm not real keen on the Brit voicings & I use my pedals for delay & reverb if needed.

DetroitBlues

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 08:55:53 AM »
Never really had a problem with anything sounding out of tune.  Typically, innotation changes on a guitar as the string break in or wear out.  Not really a problem to adjust them.  Besides, I do a lot of bending, and bend the notes up to the right pitch... Works for me.

diaper head

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 10:40:26 AM »
while the neck of a guitar is not perfectly intonated, there are tuning systems available to correct that.
buzz feiten is one,  and there is a neck made with funny shaped frets to compensate for scale length irregularities. lastly there is auto tune for guitars, just debuted at namm yesterday:

http://www.antarestech.com/

here is a demo.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/20120119/1728/NAMM_12_Peavey_AT_200_Auto_Tune_Guitar_Demo.aspx

DetroitBlues

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 11:02:30 AM »
My local luthier does the buzz feiten system, he recommends on shredder and budget/moderate level guitars.  He says they're not necessary on high end guitars... Not sure why though.

reb

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 12:29:31 PM »
it's sick. that's what it is....the intonation 'at the bridge' will not correct all the issues. i have seen (and can't right now find) a neck with staggered frets (yeah, no lie.  $500...but it claims to correct the neck issues, and one of the mags loved it).

this guy has the same issues i have. i can't come even close to his excellent explanation, because i don't have his technical background, but i hear this S$%t!!! AND IT DRIVES ME BONKERS!!!! years ago, before i had ruined my hearing with motorcycles, airplaines, complaining women, loud equipment and firearms, people who did not know me in our 100 yard by 50 yard 'office space' (old warehouse) would speak in normal tones, and i would later recount their conversation to someone or even them for some reason. they would say 'how did you hear me say that? you sob! did you have a bug in so and so's office?'. no, i hear things i don't want to hear....

when the guy in the article says his 'ears get tired', i have the same phenomenon. after an hour at a workable volume, i may start to hear things...usually, my mind focuses on some harmonic, or a string that has slipped. if B slips, i have to retune everything to 'compatibility', and to match with whatever cd or even my own looper tuning.

after readin ghis article, i now know why my korg tuner will sometimes go intermittent...i'll have to open it up, i suppose, and get the soldering iron. :) i bookmarked this, so, when i get whackadoo, i can read it again and remember 'life is not perfect. tuning is not perfect. find a compromise, and live with it'.

what i am finding is 'removing the variables' (the tube amp harmonics, pedals, loose tuners, poor string anchoring, you name it) will allow me to have a session i enjoy. perfectionist...that is the same as 'ocd' or 'addict'. i am aware of this character flaw..i have more than i like to think about in common with Dr. Sheldon Cooper, sadly.

the 44magnum has saved my sanity, at least temporarily. i am finding that it plays nice with the looper. i'm enjoying my strat again...some of what this guy says is why i don't have the trem arm on the strat....another 'short putt to nutland' is what strat trem arms are for me.

http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

i will tell you guys another thing...sincei have restricted myself to the 44, i am finding even more tones in the hagstrom than i did before.

MLJ, i have a little old vox digital amp...a da10, i think. it's a recording whiz....when i had everythig set up to go direct to computer, it's direct out was wonderful. the 'dubstep' that i put on soundclick was recorded using the vox. people just don't realize how useful some apparently small 'and not tube' amps really are.

DetroitBlues

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 02:25:30 PM »
That is when I reach the point and tell myself to shut up and just play....

zagatron1

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 04:23:35 PM »
This doesn't have anything to do with tuning, but I just wanna jump back to these 1 watt Marshalls that are coming out this year right quick. I found out that the JTM-1 combo and head are supposed to be out sometime this month, next would be the JMP-1 should be available in March, the JCM-1 in June, the JVM-1 will be out either October or November. Not a whole lot of info on the DSL-1 amp. At least I've havn't found any. Prices range from 479 for the JTM1H to 649 for the DSL-1C and the JVM-1C. I guess it's safe to say they'll be somewhere in the $750 to $1000 range. I know what I'm not gettin'. Now, back to tuning issues, the only guitars I had tuning issues with were those '09 and newer Epi Les Pauls (Plain Top and dot neck studio) I HAD. I had problems zeroing in on the G string which was too flat or sharp. The only exception is the Epi Les Paul Studio Deluxe I currently have. I never found out what the problem was with those others, 'cause I just got rid of 'em. It might have been cheap Grover tuners (if there is such a thing).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 04:45:12 PM by zagatron1 »

Memory Lane Jr

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2012, 05:20:33 PM »
This doesn't have anything to do with tuning, but I just wanna jump back to these 1 watt Marshalls that are coming out this year right quick. I found out that the JTM-1 combo and head are supposed to be out sometime this month, next would be the JMP-1 should be available in March, the JCM-1 in June, the JVM-1 will be out either October or November. Not a whole lot of info on the DSL-1 amp. At least I've havn't found any. Prices range from 479 for the JTM1H to 649 for the DSL-1C and the JVM-1C. I guess it's safe to say they'll be somewhere in the $750 to $1000 range. I know what I'm not gettin'. Now, back to tuning issues, the only guitars I had tuning issues with were those '09 and newer Epi Les Pauls (Plain Top and dot neck studio) I HAD. I had problems zeroing in on the G string which was too flat or sharp. The only exception is the Epi Les Paul Studio Deluxe I currently have. I never found out what the problem was with those others, 'cause I just got rid of 'em. It might have been cheap Grover tuners (if there is such a thing).

I think I will let the rich folks have the Marshalls for those prices, I will stick with the Blackstars they are mostly ex Marshall Amp employees anyway.
And on the tuning situation I have no problems with any of my guitars, I just pull out of case plug in & play very rare they might need a tweak, I do keep fresh strings on them though. :)

zagatron1

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 10:36:19 AM »
I'll just add that MAYBE those are M.S.R.P. prices on those Marshalls and not street ones. Just wishful thinking. ::)

DetroitBlues

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 12:01:25 PM »
This doesn't have anything to do with tuning, but I just wanna jump back to these 1 watt Marshalls that are coming out this year right quick. I found out that the JTM-1 combo and head are supposed to be out sometime this month, next would be the JMP-1 should be available in March, the JCM-1 in June, the JVM-1 will be out either October or November. Not a whole lot of info on the DSL-1 amp. At least I've havn't found any. Prices range from 479 for the JTM1H to 649 for the DSL-1C and the JVM-1C. I guess it's safe to say they'll be somewhere in the $750 to $1000 range. I know what I'm not gettin'. Now, back to tuning issues, the only guitars I had tuning issues with were those '09 and newer Epi Les Pauls (Plain Top and dot neck studio) I HAD. I had problems zeroing in on the G string which was too flat or sharp. The only exception is the Epi Les Paul Studio Deluxe I currently have. I never found out what the problem was with those others, 'cause I just got rid of 'em. It might have been cheap Grover tuners (if there is such a thing).

Sounds like Marshall is taking some pointers from Blackstar....

zagatron1

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2012, 12:54:17 AM »
Well folks, looks as though we were right 'bout Marshall! Catch a gander at this baby; http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JTM1C/ It figures! I'd snag a Class 5 any day and be happy. It was a nice concept 'n all.... y'know, the collecting thing. I'll bet the ones that follow will be considerably more no doubt.
What a disappointment.

Memory Lane Jr

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2012, 02:55:54 AM »
Well folks, looks as though we were right 'bout Marshall! Catch a gander at this baby; http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JTM1C/ It figures! I'd snag a Class 5 any day and be happy. It was a nice concept 'n all.... y'know, the collecting thing. I'll bet the ones that follow will be considerably more no doubt.
What a disappointment.

That is crazy :o I hate to think how much they would be here in Oz. The Blackstar HT1-R Combo is only $240 here, would love to see a comparo. :)

zagatron1

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 08:04:27 PM »
I certainly know what you mean MLJ, but dig this...... in USD 799.99, in AUD try for 750.67! ??? Like I said, "What a disappointment!" Well, I'm grateful for all the gear I DO have, so it's all good!

DetroitBlues

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Re: Tube, Solid State, Modeling.
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2012, 03:18:49 PM »
I have heard a lot of good things about the Super Champ XD, I think you did your Opus on one of those DB?
Any thoughts on the Fender Blues Jr? I have spotted one on ebay that could go for the right price I think it is eight yrs old.
And those 1 watt Marshall's sound interesting, a lot of people rave about the Blackstar HT-1 but I have never tried one, I just missed a good one on ebay that sold for $120, someone got a bargain. 8)

Opus was the Superchamp XD and a Fender Deluxe Roadhouse/Lonestar hybrid.  Nothing in between.  Great sounding amp that has been discountinued but reborn with the X2.  Blackstar HT1R seems to be all the rage because it has a headphone jack and sounds great pushing a 4x12 cab.  (Rob Chappers on youtube has that going on, super cool!)